PaaV Podcast #12

Jen on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 12:38 pm 

Very nicely done ladies!

I just can’t see Olivia forgiving Natalia if she doesn’t get some type of reasonable explanation for her abrupt departure…I think she could wait through the pain..but if she gets angry…and us Moms get angry if our kids get hurt…I just don’t see Olivia jumping to her happy place after this.

Thanks for all of your hard work..even if Dani needed a little liquid courage.

Lynn on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 1:45 pm 

Thank you both for being so honest in your rants. I’m used to it from Dani, but Liz was equally into world-class rant events this time. That type of honesty would get your comments deleted or your membership terminated on some of the Otalia fan sites that I subscribe to (won’t name names) that want all things Otalia to be just sweetness and light. Personally, and this is my own rant, if someone says something that other members feel is inappropriate on a fan site, then let the membership deal with it. We don’t need some higher Otalia authority
demanding that we not piss off anyone.

Here I went down the wrong rant road. All I meant to say was the podcast was well worth the listen just to hear Dani say “Toughing her down.”

Lynn

riot on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 2:09 pm 

You know perfectly well that I’m getting turned on by your rant fests so this one had me orgasm black holes into existence all around me and half the town disappeared in front of my eyes.
Just epic, this time I’ll leave some bucks on the counter before I leave.

And Dani, you’re responsible for the death of some pants again, do you know how hard it is to get some ass-worthy pants around here? DO YOU?! sigh.

Lizz. You nut you, I didn’t know you harassed the junkster with my douchebag song but I definitely approve. I guess I’ll have to keep on lovin you with one of my bigger heart parts.

Kay, I’m gonna put the rest of my lovin in an email. maybe it’ll even be about Otalia.

bookviper on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 2:57 pm 

Liz, you made me feel better about myself. Early last week I wondered if wanting to punch Father Eyebrow in the throat while he ate the cookie would send me to hell. But since you said he’s a fake man of the cloth I no longer fear for my mortal soul.

As far as Rafe goes, I don’t think we saw a spiritual journey because there wasn’t one. He took the words of religion but he didn’t take the spiritual aspect of it into account. But I’m cynical too so not sure what that’s worth.

I’m all for the rants this week if mostly for the fact that by the end of it all I could manage was mumbling into my wine glass.

Chi on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 3:45 pm 

This weeks podcast was fantastic. I’m so glad that y’all didn’t sugar coat anything and that you were just as upset by this last weeks bad writing as I was.

While I was watching the last episode for the week all I could think about was I wonder what Liz and Dani are going to say about this?

I’m mostly mad because there just isn’t enough time for Natalia to make up for this. I’m afraid that anything they do to try to resolve this is going to feel rushed and fake. I want them to be together so bad it makes my teeth hurt.

However, great job ladies, hopefully there will be better writing to analyze next week.

girlboston on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 4:12 pm 

great podcast again.. seriously for a grown woman to be pregnant or even think she’s pregnant at this point just makes Nat look like a loser,, I feel bad for CC and JL

Dani on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 4:49 pm 

Jen – I think that’s my main problem and why I can’t just “wait and see.” HOW is Olivia going to forgive her for this in any reasonable amount of time so we can move forward with the intimacy stuff? Aggravating. And it wasn’t so much liquid courage and liquid therapy.

Lynn – We’re honest like that. I actually enjoy Liz’s rants way more than my own, and if she says “are you kidding me right now?” – it pretty much makes my day.

riot – Put the pants on my tab!

bookviper – It’s not being cynical, it’s being an observant viewer. You’re right, his spiritual crap is hard to believe because all we’ve seen from him is what a law-breaking little dipshit he is. But he’s certainly in a position to judge others, right?

Chi – We definitely don’t sugar coat! And yeah, like I said, they’re going to spend the last weeks we have of Otalia on making up, if it stands as-is. Which is ten kinds of bullshit and I don’t even want to think about it yet.

girlboston – I feel bad for them too, especially with how they’ve poured their hearts into this story. Hopefully we get a dramatic turn around, and quick. I feel like JL is gunning for a t-shirt that says, “I cut my maternity leave short and all I got was this lousy storyline.”

Alexa Archer on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 7:07 pm 

Hi Liz and Dani,

I have only been able to listen to the first 35 minutes of the podcast so far (I listen during my commute and started it on the way to work this morning). However, I wanted to take a moment and say that I really appreciated your opening remarks.

Thinking that this recent turn in the storyline is ill advised (or “crap”, to be more succinct) doesn’t negate anything that came before and doesn’t mean we’re being disloyal to Crystal and Jessica, etc. Obviously, Jessica Leccia needed to go on maternity leave and we all knew this, but there were like 100 better and more satisfying ways the writers could have handled it. Anyone should be able to express this without being chastised by the “sunshine and light” people. Whether the character actually ends up being pregnant is almost beside the point now. To echo Chi’s comment above, I just don’t see how there’s enough time for Natalia to make up for ripping Olivia to shreds and then also leave us with a satisfying ending.

ashleelynn7 on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 7:36 pm 

First of all, I had pics of corn on my phone just for you two lovely ladies but my facebook mobile thingy whatever, was not cooperating. Sooo technically I did not fail. Just sayin.

I really don’t have much to say about the pod except I Totally Agree. ITA, if you will. Three words about sums it up. This week, just, really, no words. Well, actually I have A LOT of words but I’m choosing not to use them here in another comment rant since it will basically say everything Liz said on the pod.

Btw Liz- You should definitely rant more often. So intelligent and passionate. Totally awesome. And you are officially my hero for using the phrase “harsh on her mellow”.

Dani- Is it wrong to say that I love it when you’re drunk? lol . But in all seriousness, you are so right when you said that there is almost nothing Nat can do to make this ok, NOTHING. And that just makes me sad and extremely pissed off. And the lack of kissage again…well I will just point you to my comment rant from last week

Love you guys for your honesty and demanding and EXPECTING more from a story that has, up until now, delivered some really beautiful stuff.

Awesome pod, you guys rock

Kishiyaya on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 7:51 pm 

Hello my loves,
Just want to add my heartfelt thanks for a job extremely well done! First of all, thank you for the reminder that because we love this couple, these characters, these actors, that we’re passionate about them, and that when we see something that in fact does them a great disservice, then we’re going to be vocal about it.

And actually you’re selling yourself short in terms of apologizing for too much ranty, because really I found it hilarious that you kept holding the rants for later (so cute!!). And really I think you’re the only ones who managed to make me still laugh during this doubly tragic week – honestly I could have handled the tragedy portrayed if I thought they hadn’t done so at the cost of these beloved characters, who had both been so beautifully rendered until recently. So thank you, Dani that green gas cloud that had me ROFLing thru tears, and yes, and per Blake’s definition of pregnancy symptoms – I want you to know that I got pregnant at least 20 times last week. And when the rants did come they were intelligent and well-considered and sometimes just plain emotional because dammit, we needed a catharsis. Liz, I admit to hearting you just a little bit more, knowing you had written your rants in advance – who cannot love that!

While I do think the “writers” were building (since spa week) what I was hoping to the last major story beat with Natalia’s grappling with her faith to a deeper degree (you actually used a great word early in your cast about the “shunning” that had been happening by the community) unfortunately GL completely bungled the execution (both in writing and direction), and did, I do believe, tremendous damage to Natalia (bless Jessica Leccia, who still put everything in, and any semblance of empathy is all Jessica, not the writing). While it seems unfathomable that Nat would leave without a word to Liv, the fact of her not considering Emma just rang completely and utterly false. We’ve seen absolutely countless episodes, where Nat is always thinking of Emma’s well-being – if there was any consistent through line, and this was true even way before the whole Gus heart arc) – just this one aspect alone made me want to scream (I did a lot of screaming last week, btw).

In addition, almost the entire slow building arc of their story, has been how they’ve forged trust into their relationship – that was the beauty of every trial/conflict they ever faced – they were constantly surprising the other, and any misunderstandings aside, you could feel how this was being built bit by bit – it was hard fought and hard won…and then in one fell swoop I felt that trust had been destroyed, or at least damaged beyond recognition, by uncharacteristic actions. While we all know, that sometimes characters, particularly in soaps, can go incredibly blind-deaf-dumb in the service of ridic plot devices to move a story “forward”, to have spent so long building the story of this couple and having done so, so lovingly, and then to pull the rug out like this does feel like some type of murder. As a result, I’m still in a bit of shock that it happened at all.

If anyone can save this couple, its JL and CC being on the screen again, but it will also require the writers to get extremely serious about writing character again, not plot!! Attention to characters over plot had been the hallmarks of Otalia (that’s why we found simple acts like folding laundry enjoyable and meaningful!)

Ultimately, for Natalia as a character, she does need greater individuation and finding her internal voice outside all the external ones, and Olivia needs to not put Nat onto her “perfect” pedestal, but they could have gotten there without this one very cold-hearted plot move.

Anyway, I still love what we had up to this point, and am hoping this was just contrived writing to somehow make a problematic, logic-defying device choice work, and hope that whatever we get going forward, doesn’t sink to these lows again. This story deserves better, the actors deserve better, the show and its history deserve better and in memory of what we’ve been given, I sincerely hope that will be the case.

But again, much love you guys – even in dark days, you manage to entertain and bring joy and that’s no small feat. And thank you for keeping the humor, because with a week like last, sometimes that’s all we have left.
xoxo, Kish

dj on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 10:19 pm 

I wish I’d bought stock in an anvil company….

JCF on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 10:39 pm 

OK, 25 minutes in and I’m having my first serious disagreement w/ y’all.

I thought Olivia was GREAT in her handling of Rafe (last Monday), and y’all have got my dander up calling her “Pod Olivia”! >:-/

It’s completely unrealistic, IMO, to think that Olivia could “go off” on Rafe, similar to the scene in the prison (that’s the “gentle as a lamb” scene, right?).

At that point, Olivia was “just a friend” to Natalia, and OFS could go off on the little sh*t, as a disinterested party (almost an outside observer).

Now, she’s anything BUT disinterested: Natalia’s interest (in getting along w/ Rafe, AS “Otalia”) is one and the same w/ hers. She has to approach him differently now . . . and I thought she did so brilliantly (enough so that that Rage ran out of things to say, and weaseled his way outta there). Game, Spencer!

[I nevertheless thought that Rafe, throughout the whole week, was making the teeny-tiniest of baby-steps towards acceptance. Dat boy's gotta good way to go, however, but he better get there in a *month*, is all I'm sayin'!]

Back for more PaaV…

dj on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 10:57 pm 

I was so depressed by last week and today that instead of listing all your epic awesomness, all I can really say is amen. Cathartic ranting FTMFTW and I may just listen to the rant until they fix things. Also, “there’s nothing left to lezzie about. Just make out already!” = win.

However, “Eating apple pie of Billy’s chin.” != win. As if this week wasn’t already totally nauseating and crushing, you have to go and give me that mental image. I just gavomited and [insert phrase-that-is-not-to-be-uttered here]

Rekki on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 11:11 pm 

Thank you girls. AMEN! I said the same things. Nat would not leave Emma w/o words to the child, would not leave her at a BBQ. She took on the role as her second mommy, and you left your child w/o a word. Writers let me down big time.
Everything you said on the POD is dead on. I love it, I’m listening and will continue. Maybe one of the bricks that hit Olivia head gave her a concussion and she’ll wake up at the BBQ and it was all a bad dream.

JCF on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 12:29 am 

Comments at 45:36—

I TOTALLY get why Natalia is starting to freak out, when Olivia talks about Phillip, and other possible “critics” at the BBQ.

From the first *moment* Blake said the word “pregnant”, it’s been cycling around inside Natalia’s head like oversized rug in a washing machine. Blake then added the “How do you know you’re gay” bit, too. Now, Olivia is continuing to load in more stuff.

This washing machine is headed for a breakdown, I’m tellin’ ya: TILT! :-0

JCF on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 12:43 am 

Ya see, now I’m ranting, too. Who give a f@ck about the iPhone?! The only reason it’s there, is that big ol’ screen w/ the timer! [Counting down 5, count 'em 5 minutes . . . except that Natalia then leaves her pee-stick in her purse for the hour plus it takes to make, and cool, rice krispy treats. Pregnancy Test #1 for the Loss!]

Sorry, I hope I’m not ranting throughout: you know I love you guys, right? ;-/

If&When Pregnant Natalia returns in a month, please feel free to drop me in de Nile w/ cement shoes… :-X

Porter on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 1:22 am 

One of the elements that brings me back each week is the unflinching honesty with which you two tackle all things Otalia. I love that I’m going to hear you gush and squee about the stuff that tickles you, but more importantly, I am also going to get to hear you bitch and complain about the stuff you find ridiculously annoying instead of constantly getting “sunshine and roses” blown up my ass because that’s effin boring and worse, unrealistic!

I totally heart the lambasting you laid on the writers/storyline this week and if you’d spent two hours trying to placate me with optimistic talk of what’s to come, I’m afraid I would have had to break-off our podcast engagement by disappearing without an explanation to take up with a much more spiritually based podcast, leaving you completely betrayed, weeping into your skype mic wondering where the ef I could possibly be and how our epic podcast love had gone so terribly wrong.

That said, thanks for braving the vortex of suckitude that was Otalia last week! One of the ever articulate posters at TWoP said the show has “snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory” which is just such a fitting description and totally backs up my mental image of the writers/TPTB taking the Otalia storyline and actively carving it up like a side of beef and force feeding into the jaws of defeat. As discussed, they were freakin’ so home free! Just let it coast til the coming end, but NO! Let’s grind a well developed storyline and beloved characters to dust in three weeks or less and lose all goodwill and credibility in the process. Done, and done.

Reminds me of how I feel about Buffy the Vampire Slayer and why, in Porterville…with the help of a little selective amnesia…BtVS wraps up at the end of season five even though there are seven seasons. Viewed in its entirety, the Otalia story arc parallels the rise and fall BtVS saw as a series…four solid seasons of well crafted character/story development followed by an electric season five story arc leading up to the beautifully tragic story beat that ended the season. An internal shake-up and network move occurred followed by a season full of spinning wheels and unrecognizable characters, along with a few fleeting bright spots, leading to the ultimate epic fail of a story beat that ended the sixth season, polarizing and pissing off a once devoted fandom. Season seven churned out a painful series of aborted, anticlimactic characters arcs and storylines, so what was once an intelligent, layered, witty, well written, beloved series faded out of existence with barely a whimper.

I know that Otalia still has this ever shrinking small window of time in which to play out and I would hope that somehow, some way the writers/TPTB can salvage something resembling a satisfying conclusion, but I already catch myself searching the existing Otalia timeline for the point that will come to mark the abbreviated, Porterville ending.

SelmaHinkley on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 2:15 am 

How do you two know me so well? It’s like you’re regurgitating my thoughts back to me with sprinkles of wit and dashes of romance. Thanks. This Otalia betrayal hurts a little less when I feel like I’m not the only one who got duped.

Liz, I’m also a fan of your usage of “harsh on her mellow.” It made me chuckle.

Dani, you know way too much about the monkey’s paw. I only know about it through The Simpsons Treehouse of Horror episode, but you seem to have a history and everything. *bowing to the ultimate geek*

P.S. Thanks for the “Let’s Get Physical” link. That vid really brightened up my Otalia tunnel. What’s happening to our ladies?!!!!

Lana, Snapper, Whatever on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 11:40 am 

It’s taking every ounce of self-control to NOT listen, and save this for my flight back to SF. I’m seriously jonesin’ for my PaaV fix.

Julie on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 12:18 pm 

Hi Liz and Dani,
I love both of you for not drinking the KoolAid – there’s being positive and then there’s eating the shit thrown at you, pretending it’s chocolate, and I think we have definitely entered shit throwing territory here (sorry for the excessive scatology). And I especially love Liz for suppressing her polite nature and doing some awesome ranting and I totally love Dani for getting drunk, because in terms of appropriate reactions to this crapfest, it’s either that or banging your head against the wall nonstop and while both leave you with a pretty bad headache, the former is much more entertaining and enlightening for the audience. So, thanks for doing your part in saving us from completely loosing our collective minds over this homophobic, misogynist, lazy, insulting, offensive and stupid travesty (which will hopefully return to complete awesomeness next week).
Julie

tvcat on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 1:00 pm 

Just a note of support for you two for saying when shit stinks and not being ‘team positivity’ that drank the Otalia Kool-Aid.

Writing Jessica off with a pregnancy took this beautiful, special story and lowered it to the run-of-the-mill soap story. This is perhaps a Otalia Titanic moment with a ‘baby iceberg’ if they are going through with this. If, by some miracle, she is not pregnant when she returns, the story is still damaged by Natalia skipping town without talking to Olivia! WTF were they thinking!

Melanie on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 1:25 pm 

My partner confessed that she likes to tell me we forgot something about 3 miles in to any road trip and that we have to go back because she thinks that I will actually get a kick out of it when I find out she was actually kidding and feel so great about not having to turn around in hellish DC area traffic to retrieve whatever it was. This is her explanation of the writers’ motives for concocting the pregnancy ruse (if indeed it is a ruse)–that we will actually feel better and get a real good laugh when we find out the writers are just yanking our chains and turning the lesbian/label-less pregnancy cliche on its ears. In other words, won’t we think they are just so cute, clever and funny for doing this to us. Since I have no recourse against TPTB on GL, needless to say, in our household, we will never ever turn the car around to return for anything ever again. If I can’t buy it at a gas station convenience store, I don’t need it.

I was going to submit my photo of my subway car, but then the DC Metro crashed (not my train thankfully) and I did not want to spread around that much bad karma. Speaking of train wrecks, the show was simply downright cruel to the viewers on so many levels this past week that I immediately deleted all the episodes from the DVR, never to be watched again. Thanks so much to both of you for so coherently expressing the outrage we felt in our household over the horribly sloppy writing and the character assassination that has left such a bitter taste (and not even from a hotsnack) in my mouth. Here’s hoping that the writers recover from this catastrophic brain fart that has stunk up my living room.

And btw, it’s not just Bizzie, who get busy all the time, but how about Dinah and Shayne? While I like them and think they are pretty to look at, remember they did it on a blanket in a field in New Jersnia, while Otalia were hand holding and saying “goodnight” at the hotel room door. But I don’t think there’s a double standard at all.

riot on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 4:04 pm 

The PaaV Fanclub performing The Pancake Song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QabQllw1RU

Liz on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 6:01 pm 

Jen- Thanks. And I agree. I dont see Olivia forgiving Natalia for this. Not the Olivia I know anyway.

Lynn- We’re nothing if not brutally honest. lol

Riot- maybe if we double assualt her, she’ll listen? it needs a video, thats all Im saying. And I suck at videos. Im saying that too.

Chi- I agree. Really, if we dont see Nat again for a month- it just unforgivable. Leaving like that.

bookviper- I think your soul is probably safe from that particular condemnation. My dads a preacher, so obvs, I’d know.

Hey Alexa- Hope you enjoyed the rest. lol But yeah, obvs, I agree with myself.

Ashlee- blahblahblah No corn in my inbox = fail. Also, I enjoy being peoples hero. nd I love Drunk Dani too.

Kish- You know I love you and would have your babies, so I dont feel the need to say it all again.

DJ- anvil stock = genius.

JCF- Your point about Olivia caring more about Natalia now- Iagree. And thats why I dont think she’d continue to let Rafe hurt her without tearing him down a notch.

Rekki- How Id love that to be true! Thats how they just wrap itll up after JLs leave. She got hit in the head with a brick, the rest was a figment of her coma imagination.

Porter- I <3 you. Im glad you arent calling off the engagement, tht would be as heartbreaking as you not showing to our coming out BBQ.

Selma- Its good to have friends when you’ve been burned.

Lana- PICTURES!!!!

Melanie- I agree with you Re: if I cant buy it at Target when I get there- I dont really need it for vacation.

And Riot- word to the PaaV fanclub. If you’re going to write a song and record it for youtube, you’ve got to really commit. The girl in blue, she’s got it. Listen to her more.

XO

JCF on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 9:17 pm 

JCF- Your point about Olivia caring more about Natalia now- Iagree. And thats why I dont think she’d continue to let Rafe hurt her without tearing him down a notch.

You’re agreeing with me? Take a picture: probably the last time this will happen! (I kid, I kid—I think) The question is merely how to tear him down a notch (I actually think she did—and even you, Liz, agreed that Rafe’s final douchetude of the week was *slightly* tempered).

OK, onto my “…but I disagree w/ you bitches!” segment. ;-/

First off, while this is supposed to be limited to last week, we can’t ignore Monday’s revelation of yet MORE ass-hattery by Father F@ckwit. He was supposed to TELL Olivia about Natalia’s departure on 4 July?! Ye Olde Reverend Three-Legged Race? [Picture Emma all upset about her missing teammate, while Fr Eyebrow feels like Team Spirit. And screw you and your parishioner's accident, you couldn't make a phonecall? *sshole, Fail! >:-0]

My point, and I do have one, is that fact should provide the tiniest bit of mitigation to the Natalia-Loathing. Whatever her mentally-16 Freak Out, she did have a plan for informing Olivia that, figuratively, the Bauer BBQ was going to experience unexpected (tear) showers.

As for the rest: well, you know I agree w/ you re Oblivia: far more out-of-character than Natalia, frankly. There’s NO WAY she doesn’t descend from Cloud9 w/ the combination of 1) Natalia’s health, 2) Natalia’s repeated Emma-convo delays, and 3) Her “Can I Die Now?” tone over the phone.

All that said: oh, if you bitches could ONLY be in my head—wherein I honestly believe I’m channeling Jill Lorie Hurst, if ONLY I don’t jinx it by spilling my instincts/hunches/suppositions/Desperate-Denial.

It.All.Works.Out.In.The.End. (At least to ***my*** satisfaction . . . and I’m looking for WAY more than a single kiss and “hopeful”ness)

The only tease I’ll give: when we look back (after 9/18), we WILL see that the Bauer BBQ was the key.

…but Olivia unfortunately has to crawl over a lot more broken glass, to get the pay-off we all (well I, at least) want. Cry with her now, fer shur, but Good (Better, Best!) Times ARE a-Comin’!

JCF, Pharaoh of De Nile: as somebody said “Don’t harsh on my mellow.”

JCF on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 12:34 am 

…and I’m sure we’re all following Crystal’s tweets today as well (Re “as beautiful as ever” Jessica, “great scenes” “lovely stuff”. Yeah, it’d be nice if she said “great scenes where I sucked her face like a Dyson” but she can’t spoil everything now, can she? ;-p “Bitches Make Out!”)

Lana, Snapper, Whatever on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 1:56 am 

Preliminary rant: As I tried to listen to the podcast my gf, who was all, “hope you don’t mind that I listen to music and don’t chat during the flight” when we boarded interrupted me for small talk no less than seven times during the first 40 minutes, followed by one “can you get up? I need to use the bathroom” and a “get up a sec…I want to get up and stretch”. I love this beautiful, amazing woman but, um…I WAS TRYING TO LISTEN TO LIZ AND DANI DISSECT OTALIA, GODDAMIT TO HELL!

Okie doke, now that I have that off my chest:

Father Ray – Did this guy study at the Seminary of Casual Rudeness and Gluttony? It’s amazing the way he can sit around gorging on sinful dykey cookies while casually insinuating that Natalia has made herself sick by being an evil sapphic. Ummm…last I heard going to hell was the big punishment. I had no idea God was now inducing nausea and vomiting. He’s basically saying “What do you expect? God always gives lesbians the stomach flu, bitch. Now give me another goddamned cookie, sinner!” Also, maybe it’s just me, but the whole “I told ya so” attitude he’s bandying about is pretty fucking UN-Christian.

Ashley and Doris – Waste, waste and more waste. In a perfect world, Olivia would land a job working for Olivia (I hear there’s an opening for someone who’s good at standing on footstools, doling out orders to a staff of three) find out about Liv and Nat (because she’s nosy as shit) and go all “OMG, mom….Olivia and Natalia are a couple!!!’

You’re 100% right about Liv and her attitude towards Rafe. Liv wimped out at the QuickieMart. That was clone Olivia. Later, Liv rails into Philip for not answering her call. Why not put some of that fire into putting Rafe in his place?

And Rafe? For someone who supposedly found God in prison, he sure got out acting pretty surly and entitled. If Rafe is all into doing the Christian thng, someone needs to remind him that the Ten freaking Commandments specifically mention honoring one’s mother and father…but say NOTHING about hating lesbians. I mean this literally. I have so much love for the scene a few months/weeks back when Natalia turned the tables on Father Ray using scripture – the lapsed Catholic in me sang with glee when that happened – so why is no one doing this, again???

Dani is correct – the only time anyone gets a sick stomach on a soap is when a woman is preggers. And, while we’re on the whole “I had no idea I was pregnant” kick: my grandmother, who’d had 8 babies before, didn’t know she was pregnant with the 9th until a few weeks before he was born. HE WAS BORN WITH SIGNIFICANT HEALTH PROBLEMS AND WAS BASICALLY FUCKED UP HIS WHOLE LIFE. This is the sort of thing that happens if there’s a baby in your womb who doesn’t think to move, at all. I guess God punishes straight girls who fall into the lesbo trap by implanting brain-damaged babies in their wombs. In other words: this story is stupid as all hell, and Dani had the right idea in getting drunk to discuss it.

Liz and Dani, you’ve both been rendered blind by Olivia’s gorgeousness: that top is hideola. Not even Crystal Chappell could make that obscenity anything less than Hot Snack-inducing.

Liv and Frank – great scene. I love that Frank finally does the normal, human thing and mentions how shitty Olivia has been to him in the past. This conversation should have taken months ago…like maybe even on the VERY DAY Frank found out about Otalia. Why the fuck did he wait all this time to even bring it up? And, I’m sorry, but I LOVE it that Frank questions whether Olivia is the right person for Natalia. It rings true, and it makes clear what, exactly Frank’s problem with Otalia is – it’s not the gender thing, it’s the Olivia thing.

What more is there to say? Real Natalia would have never, ever pulled the running off without a word crap on Olivia. Not this late in the game. Not even EARLY on, actually. Even when they were enemies, every time she swore she’d stop helping Liv, she always backed down and went right back. If the crackpot (because there really is no other way to describe Pod Natalia) didn’t know she was preggers fro four months, what the hell difference would it make for her to stay in town for one more freaking day and make sure Olivia and Emma weren’t left in the lurch? Total bullshit.

There are photos.

Lana, Snapper, Whatever on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 2:00 am 

Oh, one more thing….40-something year old women actually do blow kisses to one another from time to time. My girl does just about every morning. BUT….would you EVER blow a kiss to anyone over the age of two who you hadn’t ever REALLY kissed? I think not.

kn101 on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 11:11 am 

Girls, you seriously rocked this pod. I especially enjoyed Liz’s rant about why this specific plot twist is a bad idea and how one teeny weeny thing has the potential to ruin a previously great storyline. (I would give you my (so far non-existent) firstborn for this rant, but it seems you’re all set in that department) Also, the rant about the fact that they’re not kissing yet? I hear ya.

Very much looking forward to more snark from you guys!

Liz on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 2:13 pm 

Julie- thanks! We try to be positive, even though some would argue thats not true. lol But it helps no one to gloss over reality. Also, head banging hurts. I’ve done it. A lot. Lately. And it hurts. Two hours of drunk Dani is way better than two hours of head banging noises…

TVCat- Baby iceberg. Nice. lol

Lana- No. She wouldnt have. And I have feelings on this week from Father Eyebrow (JCF) but still, No. You and your pics rock.

kn101- I would take your first born as long as you take it back on its second birthday.

XO

Rikita on Thu, 9th Jul 2009 11:41 am 

Love you both, but this podcast belonged to Liz. From the deft editing of Dani’s rants to the righteous indignation of the chararacter assassination of Natalia, it was made of win. I sometimes thought the fangirly gushing over JL was over the top, but this week JL earned every positive comment she has ever gotten for taking one for the team and slogging through this crap when she probably just wanted to nap. JL deserves so much better than this and she doesn’t get all the credit for bringing the subtle to balance out CC/OFS’s more overt expression. Great job.

Kristy on Thu, 9th Jul 2009 2:10 pm 

This week’s podcast was just what I needed to finally make my first comment and profess my love for Liz. I was even willing to overlook the fact that she has three shit-machines in diapers, which is huge for me because I don’t enjoy children…but now that I’ve read through the comments, I believe I may love another.

Quote: He’s basically saying “What do you expect? God always gives lesbians the stomach flu, bitch. Now give me another goddamned cookie, sinner!”

Lana – There are no words. You’re my favorite.

Sidenote: Can someone get Father Ray some chapstick? His lips look like he ate a bucket of sunflower seeds on a deserted tropical island.

Liz, I love that you were just generally pissy and regressed back to first grade playground antics by giving Frank a compliment, but then completing crapping all over it with “your hair is stupid and your shirt is ugly.” Awesome.

What is the deal with pictures? I travel all over. Going to Paris in a couple of weeks, actually. Eiffel Tower anyone?

I love you all. You’re my new best friends. Call me every five minutes.

Liz on Thu, 9th Jul 2009 4:21 pm 

Hey Rikita- Our fangirl gushing is usually over the top. But A- Jess does not get enough gushing in the soap world, so we probably over compensate subconsciously. And B- Its our podcast will fawn over whomever we want to bitches. I will have to disagree that I own the pod, because I’d be nothing but a withering pile of goo mumbling dirty jokes if it wasn’t for the awesomeness that is Dani. And really, goo isn’t as fun as you’d think. But I will tke credit for standing really close to her and letting her radness rub off of me. Like the moon does with the sun.

Kristy- I support your love of Lana. She is way cooler than us. And I love first grade. Even if Frank starts being awesome, his shirt will still be ugly and his hair will still be stupid. Love you Frank D!
And Eiffel Tower! You would soooo win!! Just email them to liz at pancakesandavalium.com

XO

bonita on Sat, 11th Jul 2009 11:47 pm 

i always enjoy your pods, on some level. i actually agree with many of your points this time, just not all your conclusions. i’m gonna go with jcf on this… it’s fine to not like the direction they seem to be going in (critique is essential), but to dismiss it as crap before we even know what they’ll do with it… sorry, can’t go with you on that.

but really, i have no interest in arguing on this, it’s all been said before. i will simply add that your point about all the happy hetero couples on july 4th juxtaposed with the miserable lesbian couple is rather short-term thinking. half of these freaks could be dead, in jail, or otherwise miserable in the next couple months. liv and nat could end up being the only happy couple left standing.

Liz on Sun, 12th Jul 2009 12:27 am 

Hey Bonita! Thanks for chiming in. I don’t know why you’d think we’d argue, thats not really our style.
I will say though that no matter what happens in two months- the strong visual image of last Friday doesn’t change. Even if the entire town dies of the clap from being dirty dirty skank bags- that specific day, that specific visual, was jarring. I’m not going to let what maybe could potentially happen in a month- effect how I interpret what I see now. But, thats just me.
Anyway, no arguments here- everyone is welcome to their own feelings.
XO

bonita on Sun, 12th Jul 2009 8:04 pm 

thanks liz…. you’re still babes and i’m still a fan. this is the last thing i’ll try to say on that last scene. consider this interpretation and please note that i’m not just pulling this outta my ass, i’ve contemplated it and not simply as an attempt at rationalization but rather as genuine appreciation of what they’re doing.

’tis true you can interpret that july 4th montage as a ringing endorsement of heteroworld and a blatant “see, see, look at those sad pathetic lesbos!” but here’s what i saw. aside from some great acting from both cc and jl, i saw a wonderful REBUKE of the catholic church (and most other churches actually). maybe this is because i’m anti-theist (no atheist is not enough but i would argue it’s much more than that. the first words out of nat’s mouth were not “i’m preggers, what shall i do?” it was “what is worse, fuckin’ a dude outside of marriage or LOVING a woman?” father bray told her it was not punishment from god, but at the same time he pushed her to run away from liv. to me the message (from jlh & ew) was that god is okay with this, it’s the church that’s fucked up. i’m thinking back to nat and father bray’s first conversation on the matter. father bray agreed that the scripture IS open to interpretation BUT the church is NOT. bray is simply providing the voice of many churches/religions, NOT the voice of god. and i think that’s incredibly important. jlh’s writing for nat was fantastic. she was using the bible to shut down the church’s bullshit (didn’t you point that out?)

so cut to the july 4th picnic. sf’s newest, and what should have been the happiest couple, is miserable, lost, and in devastating pain. you’re right, it’s an unbelievably powerful juxtaposition. but you CAN”T take it out of context–well you can, but i’m calling you on it what about everything that came before it? what about all the other issues jlh raised only to shoot them down? you think that she’s abandonning them now?!? if that day was the first one i ever tuned in, i would totally agree with you, but NO! sorry i just don’t buy it. to my mind what is being said in that montage is…. life and love is for everyone, regardless of who we are so embrace it because it is fleeting–as phillip can attest to (that’s why he’s at the centre of it all and we know clearly that he is totally in favour of otalia!) but sometimes bullshit gets in the way and if we buy it we will be miserable.

how differently would the picnic have unfolded if nat had simply gone to liv instead of eyebrows? and why did she go where she did? this was NOT a reversal of character, this was the culmination of nat at her religious worst, some serious slippage on her part. and liv has slipped plenty of times. how hard is it really to simply say to the one you love (whom you know loves you and children) “i’m pregnant”? it’s not hard, unless you believe that god sees you as innately bad.

we know they will have a happy ending, so why this? sorry, but i’m not willing to dismiss it as bad writting (though in the end it certainly could be). to me they’re sending a clear message… it’s not really people that are the problem–we’re all in this pile of poo together. the problem is that we thoughtlessly accept the disourses/ideologies (the ones that permeate our existence and help structure and colour our reality) without ever asking if they are true or right for us. to me that’s best exemplified when nat tries to explain everything to rafe. he asks her why everything she taught him as a child no longer counts and she has no real answer. why? because she has never given her faith any serious critical consderation before falling in love with liv. she bought it all and therefore couldn’t help but raise a homophobe and now she’s oddly baffled by this fact. what the hell else could she have expected if she raised him by catholic or most other religious teachings?

for otalia, the church is their greatest stumbling block… it’s rafe, it’s natalia’s past pregnancy, it’s nat’s current fears, it’s nat’s willingness to turn everything over to her god rather than making her own fucking decisions (duuuuuhhhhh, the lord helps those who help themselves). she already knows what’s right and true for her, but that dogma keeps nagging at her. to me the message is, fuck dogma! consider the sappy theme song… “only love can save the world”.

my belief is that, somewhat ironically, nat has gone away to finally think critically about her beliefs. yeah, she said she was good with god before, but it was way too quick and easy for her to toss aside a lifetime of submissiveness and fear and i don’t think she was really able to separate god from the church (notice i said anti-theist, not anti-deist).

final deep breath.

as nat simply stated a while back. “perception is reality”. if you have already decided this storyline twist is terrible i suspect you will be hard pressed to see much good in it. i never cared either way if she was pregnant. maybe i’m wearing rose-coloured glasses or drinking the purple koolaid (really quite patronizing i must say), or maybe i’m just not willing to ignore how jlh operated in the previous several months. is it possible she fucked this up? sure, she’s human. does nat have a helluva pile of making up to do when she gets back in a very short period of time? yep. but maybe we could remember that liv is a woman who very nearly died and was literally kept going by the woman she is now in love with. surely she can allow for some fuckups so forgiveness can come quickly. trust is more of a challenge but is hardly impossible, especially with an acknowledgement of and change of circumstances and an open heart.

and one final point. what i find most fascinating about all this is that ellen wheeler, the one everyone complained wouldn’t let this romance go on because of her religious beliefs, is not only behind it, but supporting such a critical take on the church. you could argue that she’s okay with it because it’s the catholics not the mormons, but after the prop 8 fallout, is there really a difference? the very choice of natalia as olivia’s love interest was a strong hint that there is more to this story than titillation or simplistic moralizing. all i’ve ever wanted was to watch the story unfold. there have been plenty of things i’ve disliked but i’ve always found the larger picture to be satisfying. yeah, the lack of kissing is ridiculous, but i think it’s just pregnancy logistics i.e. if jl wasn’t pregnant they would have kissed sooner. but time is running out and i’d like to be there for the final kick–ya never know what beauty could unfold. seriously at some point you either just quit or allow for some faith in the possibilities. since disappointment is the worst case scenario here, it seems to me it’s worth taking the chance.

i look forward to your next podcast.

Liz on Sun, 12th Jul 2009 9:56 pm 

I’d never accuse anyone of pulling anything out of their asses. People are totally entitled to their opinions whether I share it or not. In fact, there’s basically nothing I hate as much as someone who says ‘you have to agree with me or you’re wrong’. And I know Dani will agree with me on that fact. Or she’s wrong. lol
I like your take on last Friday. I really do, its nice- its well thought out- it even makes sense. But I still don’t share it.
I do love your thoughts about Natalia going away to really sort out her beliefs. Even in the gazebo scene post wedding, she begged with God not to forsake her, before admitting her feelings for Olivia. I think you’re spot on there. I even think I’ve said before in the podcast that I didn’t believe Natalia was really done with that (I want to say during the Fthr Ray table scene maybe?). I’ve never had a problem with her going away- I said that over and over- that I believe that to not only be in character but actually good for Natalia. I’d said for weeks that she needed a nap. My hope is she’ll return to Olivia, really really sold out and ready- and be very demonstrative upon her return.
Although, we dont actually KNOW that we will have a happy ending. We all hope for a happy ending, but I’m hearing that re writes are still happening and nothings really for sure about anything right now, least of which is final stories. (I do still hear we’ll have a happy ending, but everything is in the air) I mean, in March we were told there was no plan to make Natalia pregnant, and yet that happened, so I’d say we don’t really ‘know’ anything. And even if we do get Otalia riding off into the sunset together (which I’m hoping for, of course) that doesn’t mean we should settle for whatever is thrown at us in the mean time. CC herself said its an ‘interactive story’ so expressing displeasure at things is good- I think.
And I promise you, no one on this podcast prejudged this twist as terrible (Im assuming you mean the pregnancy). In fact, we ourselves said as long as three weeks ago when we first had confirmation that this was coming, that we were waiting to see what happened. We were flooded with emails, and encouraged our listeners and friends to do the same. We said that last week too, on the podcast, to just wait and see. We still know a little of whats coming, and we still encourage people to watch and see how it plays out. I’m not expressing displeasure, really, about a baby being born in 5 months. I’m expressing displeasure that this is cliched, last minute, and cheap. In a storyline that had been nothing but ground breaking, perfectly plotted, and beautiful until now. I’m sure it can end up good, but why take gold, put crap on it, and then mold gold out of it again?
And one more thing- we agree that Olivia will easily forgive this. Thats not even growth, Olivia has always been a very forgiving character. She’s had dialogue with Phillip, Alan, and Jeffry all three about how shes not one to judge, she easily forgives, etc etc. But trust is a whole other issue. Its not really in Olivia’s character to trust, Natalia has brought that out more in her- but thats not really who she ‘is’. So it will be interesting to watch that unfold.
‘Faith’ is not really a word that I’ve ever allowed myself to associate with television, because even though I’m sure Jill and Ellen want to continue bringing us beautiful story- its not all in their hands. But clearly, since we’re still here- since we didn’t pack up and move on to something else- we’re still here for the ride. I’m not saying forever, but right now- we’re deeply invested and we are hoping to watch GL dig itself out of what we feel is a mess- dust itself off- and leave us with a beautiful smile. They can, if they choose to, so we’ll see.

But don’t ever feel like Dani or I would ever allow someone to argue with someone else here. We don’t always hit our mark of positivity- but fun we do. And respect. So even though I’m all about member moderation and shit- I’m also all about we respect everyone- including peeps we don’t agree with. I really do appreciate every dissenting opinion we get. I don’t really like talking AT people (which, I know, ironic since I have a podcast and thats what a podcast basically is), I like talking WITH people. So I love this interaction and dialogue. It would be super boring if every email and comment we got agreed with us. We wouldn’t want that. We like friends, not followers. So different opinions, as long as they remain respectful- are not only allowed but vehemently encouraged. So yeah, don’t be afraid to voice an opinion here.
XO

bonita on Sun, 12th Jul 2009 11:19 pm 

thanks again liz. i wasn’t shy about commenting here or worried you’d dump on me. it’s more just being a little weary of the whole debate. i didn’t offer my perspective because i thought i would change anyone’s mind–i didn’t think it would and in a sense i didn’t want to. hell, you could be right about it all, so who am i to say you’re wrong? i just wanted to offer another perspective that has largely been drowned out in the tsunami of anger elsewhere. and i KNEW you would respect my perspective.

i understand the anger, i just don’t agree. i can’t call the pregnancy a cliche because i have no idea how it ends and i’m left scratching my head, asking–don’t we need to know that in order to call it cliche?

my faith isn’t really in the writers. i agree that it’s not all in their hands. i have enjoyed what they’ve done, but i’ve never thought that they’ll always get it right. i just don’t need them to get it all right. i think my faith is actually in me and my capacity to find the beauty even within the crap piled on the gold. and no we shouldn’t accept everything we’re given, PLEASE critique the s/l… hell, that’s a big part of why i come here.

my faith is also just in… damn, i don’t know, life… ??? that eventually good happens but only if we stick around to witness it. and yeah, sometimes it means trudging through crap. though it doesn’t mean we have to sit and take crap and abuse, i just mean it exists. in this case i simply think the past efforts by the makers of this show have earned it a longer look.

that’s all i wanted to say so this is me shuttin’ up now.

JCF on Mon, 13th Jul 2009 12:03 pm 

You’ve got an awful/-some amount of faith for an “anti-theist”, Bonita!

[JCF, snarky Episcopalian---who, truthfully, when not currently obsessing about Otalia, is obsessing about how my Church is dealing w/ LGBT issues right this minute at our triennial General Convention, happening by Disneyland---f'real---in Anaheim. If you're so inclined, pray 'em if you got 'em?]

Re Olivia being able to TRUST Natalia again, I’ve got a little helpful hint…

BITCHES, MAKE OUT!!!

Downloading #13 as I type…

bonita on Mon, 13th Jul 2009 12:33 pm 

i’m a fan of yours jcf… don’t know that making out would fix the trust, but it would certainly work for me

points of clarification. faith is not limited to religion, it’s simply a human habit. i emphasized that i’m anti-theist, not anti-deist. this means i am open to the concept of a higher power or whatever… it’s about connections we have with each other and how life flows. i don’t know and i’m comfortable with that.

my anti-theism simply refers to the books and dogma. i don’t believe any of them are the word of god. they are simply the words of people who wish to know the “mind of god”. believing in a santa claus-like god who keeps a list of who’s naughty or nice… no, sorry.

also downloading as i type. loving it liz and dani

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